Jab With a Smile to Flip The Script and Control the Sale

Hello, my friend. Welcome to the 718th episode of the sales podcast. I'm Wes Schaeffer, The Sales Whisperer®, your host.

Today marks the beginning of season 13 lucky 13. maybe, you know, I just found out that, if I raised this standing desk up just enough, the fan, hits my light. So I was hearing this, that don't, that don't, that don't, that don't like, what the hell, but I digress. Hey, let's talk about,

something I'm working on now. I'm calling it flip the script. I made a video. It's a new lead magnet opt in series. It takes you from flipping the script to my overcoming objections, leading folks into my inner circle and my new 12 weeks to peak VIP, which I've decided I'm changing up and offering that for young men. And maybe my next episode I'll talk about.

why that focus. But on flipping the script, I've written about this in various ways over the years. One was talking about jabbing. In boxing, the foundation of boxing is the jab. Good stance in all sports, power comes from the feet. But that jab is just you're setting up the distance, you're setting up the timing.

You're seeing which way your opponent reacts and then that sets up the combination, right? And the knockout. And so I've written about that approach, you know, when a prospect comes barreling at you, how do you handle it? How do you knock them on their heels a little bit? Get them thinking about changing their approach, right?

Maybe they realized this frontal, this direct frontal assault may not be the best way. And so obviously you got to use words, right? So how do you flip the script? And most, I realized most people don't understand this. They don't do it. Most salespeople, they're nervous about the call and they spend so much time on the preparation and the research because they don't know how to jab. They don't know how to flip the script.

Wes Schaeffer (02:22.882)
They don't understand how to be different. But all salespeople will tell me, Wes, I'm great once I get in front of a qualified prospect. I'm like, well, A, number one, your number one job is to get in front of a qualified prospect. Right? And B, how are you really different?

This is how I have worked in dozens of industries with hundreds and even thousands of entrepreneurs and salespeople and sales managers, with almost no research on my part, because the help that I provide them is human to human.

You need to look at what your competition does and do the opposite. When that prospect comes barreling in, loaded for bear, right? Tons of questions peppering you, expecting you to be this dancing chicken to give them free education, free consulting, free advice. So they can take that information and go use it against the next salesperson who can't take control. Of course, you're to be nervous.

It's like a never ending, endless potential for risk and for loss. How do you prepare for that? But when I know how to flip the script, when I know how to take control of the conversation, I'm not that worried about it.

Okay. And what I realized, so, you know, since 2008, I've sold software, started working with Infusionsoft. Now they're called Keap. They were bought by Thrive, but I've been a HubSpot partner since 2014, Entreport since 2014, ActiveCampaign, ConvertKit, Nimble, PipeDrive. You know, I've had a lot of these on the CRM Sushi podcast. But, you know, I was focused solely on Infusionsoft.

Wes Schaeffer (04:17.688)
for eight years, six years, 2008 to 2014. And those were the heydays, you know, we're selling so much. But still to this day, people, they want a demo, right? And they say, hey, yeah, tell me about your CRM.

I mean, it's like somebody saying, tell me about your home, you know, that you're building for me or tell me about your solar. Tell me about the car. You know, I'm interested in this truck. I'm considering this versus that. You know, tell me about it. It's it's it's endless. It's never ending the things that you could talk about. And so do you recognize what is going on? Because our job, like I was saying, is to prospect, but really our job when we prospect is to disqualify the prospect.

Not qualify. Only a small percentage of people are ready, willing and able to buy right now in this conversation, right now in this moment. And so the early partners in the Infusionsoft days were all technical. They were coders and developers. They wanted to support customers that already had the software and they wanted to customize it and supercharge it and things that I could not do and still can't do. It's not my world. I was very good at using the system out of the box. Let's just use it the way it was designed, right?

Uh, you know, why do they call, you know, the, initials for Harley-Davidson HD, right? Cause it stands for a hundred dollars. You can't, you can't go to a store. can't go anywhere without spending a hundred dollars to, uh, to tweak it, to improve it, to customize it. Right. Well, that's how these guys were treating Infusionsoft. Like, Hey, pay me a hundred dollars an hour, $200 an hour, pay me a hundred dollars to tweak something.

I had a Harley and all I put was saddlebags on it. So I like to use my stuff the way it was built. So all these technical guys, they would ask me, how do I sell so much? And what they, the mistake they were making was thinking that the prospects were as analytical and interested in everything as they were. The reality was and is most of the people calling to use it were entrepreneurs, they were salespeople. It was a tool.

Wes Schaeffer (06:33.134)
could it meet their needs? And so when they'd say, yeah, I'm interested in this CRM. What can you tell me about it? Now, it didn't hurt. where's that? It's behind. Let me grab it. It didn't hurt that I wrote a 600 plus page book on infusion soft. So I'd say, well, how much time do you have? Because I literally wrote the book. You got 12 hours? No. OK. Let's say you didn't write a book.

You know, somebody when they hit you with that, again, you got to flip the script.

Yeah, I'm interested in your software. What can you tell me about it? Well, I can tell you a lot about it. What would you like to know? mean, you know, look, I mean, don't be playing these sales games with me. You know, I'm interested in the software. I apologize if you think I'm coming off that way, but this stuff does a lot. What would you like to know? And what I realized what I have done, what I do have done over the years and still do.

And it's not, I don't know if I learned this like as a ploy or a tactic or I just do it, but I think it's just sincere. I'm truly curious on what's going on in their lives. And I thought about it like when friends get together.

they're excited to catch up. But then eventually they tell stories. They stop asking questions because I used to always say, whoever asks the questions is in control of the conversation. And that is still true. But you got to make sure you don't come across like an inquisition, right? Like the police or the FBI, just peppering them with questions. Because the old school trainers never answer a question, know, will never ask a question they could say no to.

Wes Schaeffer (08:25.73)
and never answer a question without a question. So it's like, okay, that's not as effective anymore. All right, but there's a way to do it. But anyway, when you get together with old friends, right? my gosh, how are you doing? How's the wife? How's the kids? How's the job? How's the house? How's the dog? Tell me, tell me, tell me. You know, they're excited. Like they want to know everything. And I do this with Prosper. Well, tell me about the CRM.

I'm happy to. Let me ask you something. What's your level of experience with this? So you can leave it at that. What I usually do though is say, what's your level of experience with this? Are you way into it, super experienced, like you can code this stuff and make it shake, rattle, and hum on your own? Or is it kind of like a necessary evil? Or are you brand new to this?

So I give them some choices and I go, nah, I mean, I'm not a rookie, but yeah, it's kind of a necessary evil. Hey, no sweat. I'm with you on that. You know, what are you using now? And again, a lot of times they don't want to answer because they've been abused by other salespeople and they know they got to play the cards close to the vest. So I won't just ask, so what are you using now? Say, what are you using now?

Are you moving from something? Are you downgrading? Are you upgrading? Are you looking for more capabilities? Or is it just sticky notes and email right now? Yeah, we're basically email sticky notes. Or yeah, we're kind of growing out of our current platform and kind of wondering what's out there. Or yeah, we're downgrading. We overbought a couple of years ago. Our eyes were bigger than our mouth or than our stomachs.

Whatever it's okay. Hey, and again, hey, I hear that all the time. It happens. No sweat. So, but by, by peppering them with a few sincere, honest questions and being excited about like, I love selling. I love selling technology. I love helping people understand, like get the clarity a lot of times for the first time ever. Cause people confuse things. They muddle the waters. They don't know how to sell.

Wes Schaeffer (10:49.294)
and they emphasize the wrong thing. You I learned years ago, your prospects are not you.

So that's why my early competitors, if you will, the early partners at InfusionSolve who were very technical, they treated all of the prospects as being like them. Technical, wanting to read the manual, and they weren't.

Okay. Now I got lucky in a way, right. And that most of the customers weren't like me. they just needed the tool. I needed to get the job done. So I kept it simple. Okay. So, but again, you've got to flip the script. So when they come in, tell me about the CRM and you've got to read, read the room, right? Are they closed off or they Kurt or they rude, you know, are they avoiding eye contact or are they not turning their camera on?

And you know, and look, I've been selling over video since I got started with Infusionsoft, you know, 2008. And I became really active selling it by, I don't know, middle, late of nine. Cause back then, at first it was $5,000 down. was like, I didn't really, didn't see the value in reselling that. Cause I got in on another partner program. So I didn't have to pay that.

was a different qualification process back then, but then they lowered the price to two grand. I'm like, okay, it's worth two grand because I did the setup. Okay. Cause they, they changed the rules. cause back then the 5k went to them and I was just stubborn and kind of desperate, right? I needed this stuff to work. So I was, I was dedicated. but once they lowered the price and I could get the fee, I'm like, okay, no sweat. I know I add value. And so getting involved like that.

Wes Schaeffer (12:40.854)
you know, I loved it. I love selling it. These people, they were me. They, they were wanting to automate their lives. wanted to take away the redundancy, the tedious stuff, the non-profit making activities, but vital. were important things, right? I mean, in a way everything makes you money, right? But when you can streamline and eliminate data entry or reduce

or eliminate double entry. mean, life just gets better.

So I was sincerely, truly interested in helping these people. I was excited about the product. I was excited about the change you could bring about in their lives. I was excited about making the money. I make great money.

So how can you flip the script on these prospects? You you've got to recognize what is going on. You have to recognize your role as a salesperson. Okay. Again, your job is to disqualify. Your job is to help the prospect understand probably for the first time ever the depth and the breadth of their issue.

the ramifications, the impact. Okay. and, I say for the first time, cause look, if, if they had truly made a decision and recognize everything, they would have already done it. You know, I'm, I'm HOA president, right? We just cut checks for two new HVAC systems for our clubhouse, two new heaters for our pool. We recognize the problem. We.

Wes Schaeffer (14:30.114)
paid to solve the problem. You know, we have five heaters for our pool, one for the kiddie pool, one for the hot tub, three for the main pool. The kiddie pool went out, I guess, a while ago. We have three for the main pool. One of those went out. And so, so I knew it was an issue with one going out. I knew that our systems were way old. We got lucky. These things have far outlived how long they should. So we began.

researching this and investigating this. We've gotten multiple bids, right? So we were one of those, Hey, tell me about your service. Tell me about what system you'd recommend. Why do you recommend that one? How many times have you installed this one? what's the customer support like on and on? Right. So, literally this past weekend, so one of the air conditioners failed about a month ago and we have a local guy that we've done that are remodeling on our clubhouse and we have him on a retainer.

maintenance he went out tweak something got it working well it failed again this past weekend so it's like okay done so we had already gotten quotes so we made a choice and cutting the checks literally right now so you know I tell you that because if they if they haven't if they still have the problem it means they either have not fully recognized the extent of the problem you know

or they have and they're in the final decision-making. So, okay, are you like the third quote they're gonna get before they make a decision? Who has put into their brains the specs, the needs? You can you reverse engineer things? Maybe they're getting quotes on the wrong configuration.

So how do you dig down, right? So it's our job again to disqualify these prospects, engage them. You know you're on the right track when you get the prospect saying, huh, that's a good question. Wow, never really thought of it that way. Huh, I got to give that some thought, you know? Let me get back to you on that. So again, our job is not to educate them. Our job is to ask questions they haven't thought of.

Wes Schaeffer (16:46.168)
Then give some education, help them understand. You know, because really since the age of the internet, the role of salesperson has changed. And now with AI, I think it's really changing. Our job is not so much to educate, but to confirm, to validate, to help the prospect know they're making the right decision. And we do that by the questions that we ask and of course having some insights into the features and the benefits, the tools and whatnot.

Okay, so how can you flip this script? So it's literally being calmer, it's being more inquisitive, and it's okay to ask questions they can say no to because look, hearing no early is a win.

but just make sure you're doing it right. it's not, you're not trying to get off the phone, right? and just go to the next, you want to make sure it's something you can't handle. You want to make sure that there's truly not a fit. Okay. I if somebody comes to me and says, you got to teach this course in Chinese, like, okay, I can't do it. So, I mean, we're, let's just end this now. I got hate to do a big dance, do a big RFP, RFQ.

you know, spend hours, days, weeks on this thing and then say, yeah, we forgot to tell you, you know, we have to travel to China in 60 days and give this, you know, in Mandarin.

I mean, I'm picking an extreme example. You get the point though. Can you put these people back on their heels, get them thinking, giving things some thought, then accepting your guidance, your coaching, your advice, your steering, if you will. That's how you know things are going your way. And again, none of this is done from a manipulative standpoint.

Wes Schaeffer (18:47.212)
We are persuading because it's in their benefit. It's in their best interest to listen to us and to follow our recommendations. Okay. I know from a training perspective, from a coaching perspective, I'm their best option. Okay. I believe that in my heart. I've talked about this before, know, with Zig Ziglar talking about, you know, be a product of the product and how he had one of his guys was struggling.

And he told him, where's your, where's your gear? Right. And the guy said, I haven't had the money. I've had this and the other. he said, pull out your pad and write yourself an order. As soon as the guy did psychologically, he was now bought in. was literally now psychologically bought in. And that, that the thing that we sell is confidence. know, Zig has always said that the selling is the transference of a feeling. That feeling is confidence.

So when somebody is just peppering you with a lot of questions, yeah, on the one hand, you can just answer, answer, answer. And that could be a tactic, right? Because if you know they come in and ask you a bunch of stuff, you just calmly answer.

And then when they run out of steam, say, Hey, mind if I ask you a few questions of my own? Kind of like in jujitsu, we'll get, we'll get new guys come in and they just, you know, they shoot their wad. They come in full of piss and vinegar and they attack. know, I'm 55 years old now. I don't have the energy, the cardio of a 25 year old. Get these big Marines coming in, cops, firemen, 25, 30 years old.

Weightlifters, know, former wrestlers, former football players, whatever, Crossfitters. And they, I mean, the bell rings and they attack. I can't go toe to toe with these guys. Okay. So I don't, I know how to retreat. I know how to move. I know how to use their momentum against them and just subtle little movements.

Wes Schaeffer (21:00.472)
They're giving it everything and I'm just redirecting, redirecting, redirecting. They're grabbing, they're squeezing, as long as if the hand is not deep in the neck, there's no choke there. They're pulling, they're squeezing, never fails. 20, 30 seconds tops. I've never had anybody even last a minute going at that full pace, brand new. Once they're done, now I put it on them. Okay, now I show them Jiu Jitsu.

So it can be the same thing with your prospects, right? So they ask a bunch of questions. What's the size? What's the weight? What's the warranty? What's the shipping time? On and on on. What's the code? What's this? What's the material made of? Is it organic? Is it American made? Any artificial dyes and coloring? don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't,

I'll lay on them, but not totally smash. want them extended a little bit and not fully because the, you the frame of your body, your skeletal frame can hold the weight. I want them right in between. And I'm kind of shifting a little bit back and forth. So that's never even. then they literally the hands collapse. I don't know. got them for the same thing in sailor that this, that and the other organic USA. Hmm. And you see him kind of go, okay.

They run out of steam because they're trying to gotcha, getcha, gotcha. Now you answer everything like, huh. Now you slowly confidently say, well, you consider your next question to be okay if I ask you a couple of questions.

Okay, so I'm letting them think they're in charge. But the reality is I'm in charge. I know how this game is going to go. And they'll be, yeah, go ahead. So now I start not peppering them, but I want to ask them deeper questions. You know, my website, I my frequently asked questions and my should ask questions. The should ask questions are the things they don't know they don't know. That's how I differentiate myself from everybody else.

Wes Schaeffer (23:11.854)
is by the questions that I ask, the insight that I bring to the table. But I can't say, hey, look, I got a degree here, I got a degree here, look, I'm a citizen of the year over here, blah, blah, Air Force veteran, look, they don't care. They don't care. Until I ask them good questions and prove that any of these things behind me mean anything to them in their current situation. Because that's all that matters. So stop trying to...

you know, stroke your ego by showing off to these prospects how much you know.

Okay, ask good questions that they don't know the answers to. That's why I have everybody in my consulting, in my 12 weeks to peak, I have you right.

don't even use that was before AI you don't even use AI to write at least in this context I want you to write to get into the process of thinking and formulating your thought and putting your argument together bolstering your stance and internalizing that you know again it's just like jiu-jitsu I was showing a guy today how we move how to set things up and we do these warm-ups and do the same warm-up routine every day and it can be boring

I get it. But you know, professional trains, know, rookie trains, so they get it right. A professional trains and so they can't get it wrong. So our warmups are done for a specific reason. And when we get into a position on this one warmup, it helps us with sweeps. It helps us with attack, with defending attacks. So it's both offensive and defensive. But we practice this over and over and over again. And I was showing him. So in that practice, in that repetition, when you do it right,

Wes Schaeffer (24:59.672)
You now can do it without thinking when it matters, when you're being attacked. Okay. So have you gone through this enough? Do know enough? Is it, it ingrained in your, in your brain and your body and your being to engage them in a calm, methodical, thought out manner?

Wes Schaeffer (25:27.64)
how you prove you're different by being different. So by writing and thinking this through, you're getting those repetitions in. Yes, it can be boring, but it will pay off. I promise you. AI does not have this humanity component to it. You know, heard something years ago, know, electronic music has been around for a while, right? Decades. But they had done a study

And because you would think of this perfect music, perfect timing, a lot of would like this. But there was something about the nanosecond of discrepancy of, you know, of drums and the timing and the keyboards and whatever guitar that made people appreciate the music. They talk about humans, our faces are are not perfect mirrors, you know, eyes are a little different, one may be a little more closed, one may be turned up, whatever.

nostrils may be a little bit different, we'll smile a little unevenly and those those imperfections are what make us beautiful to the people that love us. So the the imperfections that that are in your writing.

humanize you.

And that's where the connection comes from. Cause at the end of the day, you're a human selling to a human. So put in the reps, do the writing, do the thinking, do that deep hard work. Okay. That's how you'll flip the script because when you do this enough, again, it'll become ingrained. It just deep in your, in your body. In your soul. Okay. So, I'll put a couple of links in here. like I said, the, the flip the script, you can go back and watch that or you can.

Wes Schaeffer (27:17.484)
You can sign in and watch that. That's basically what I covered here. But then that'll take you, if you want my objection handling flashcards. I've had this for many years, 51 pages, but I just updated it. It's like 57 pages now, but it's just a regular format, like a sheet of paper. There's still all the same, you know, one argument, an intro, and then examples of how to handle it. So.

You know, avail yourself of that. I'll link directly to that if you want to get those. and, again, I'm not, I don't want you to become a robot. don't want you to memorize all these things and think that's just hit memorize this and you'll be okay. The reason I give you scripts and objection handling tips and openers for cold calls and stuff. Again, it's not to make you a robot, but to give you the confidence to step into the arena.

And just like with our Jiu-Jitsu, know, the first few tournaments you do, you were amped up, you're nervous. Man, I forgot everything in the first couple of fights. But then I, you get through and I was a grown ass man, you know, like my white belt though in Jiu-Jitsu, I'm 47 years old and just forget everything. But you got to go through that. You got to flounder and fail a little bit, you know, but like they say, you either win or you learn. There really is no failure. So I give you the scripts so you...

You know that you have the answer, but at least a good answer, at least something that won't make you look stupid. You got to go through it and personalize it and make it your own. You know, the moves my 60 year old instructor teaches, you know, he's whatever, five, nine, five, 10, 165 pounds. I'm six, two, two, 35, you know, but he learned moves. He's trained for 40 years. I've trained for eight. We have different abilities.

So I have to modify things or the things that I give you, the foundation of them will always be true. You know, work around the edges, customize them, personalize them. Okay, but you've got to enter the arena. You've got to stay sharp. Do the writing, do the calls, handle, take the objections, handle them, gain the confidence, get the wins, get the referrals and testimonials, get more confidence in it.

Wes Schaeffer (29:36.078)
That's why I call it ABCDE, you know, I'll link to that as well. you know, attract, convert, deliver, and dear. And it's not a pipeline, it's not a funnel, it's not one way. It's never ending. It's a circle. Attract, bond, convert, deliver, and dear. Attract, bond, convert, deliver, and dear. Because when you conduct yourself differently at the attraction phase, the bonding gets easier. The conversion to becoming a customer gets easier. It's easier now because you didn't over promise. It's easier to delight them.

That makes it easier to endear yourself to them. Now you're back to the attraction phase. I was hanging out with my kids and since 2002, I bought an iPod. So 2004, I've used Apple computers. Now my family of nine, that's all we have. Because Apple understands attract, convert, deliver, and dear. You're not here to make one sale. You're here to make five or 10 to them.

Okay, that's what you do when you flip the script. Okay, you prove you're different by being different from the moment you open your mouth. But back to that attraction phase, how you email somebody, how you leave a voicemail, how you confirm a meeting. All of that sets the tone. All of that tells the world, you know, are you truly different or not?

Wes Schaeffer (31:00.686)
Prove you're different by being different. Look at what your competition does and do the opposite. I think Ogilvy said that many years ago. Do that you'll be fine. If you need some help, hit me up. I'll put some links in the description. Thanks for watching. I'll go sell something.