The New Sales Bible by Dr. Persuasion, Yaniv Zaid

Wes Schaeffer (00:00.77)
Dr. Yaniv Zaid, all the way from Tel Aviv, author of the 21st Century Sales Bible. Welcome to the sales podcast. How the heck are you?

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (00:11.62)
Thanks, Wes. It's perfect to be here. I heard a few episodes from your podcast and I enjoyed it very much. So I'm very happy to be here.

Wes Schaeffer (00:19.742)
I like what you've got going on. Mastering the Ten Commandments of Marketing, Negotiation, and Persuasion. But you've written quite a few. What did you say? This is your fifth book?

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (00:31.236)
It's fifth book in English and I also wrote six books in Hebrew and my books in English were translated to 12 languages so far and I sold more than 300,000 copies worldwide.

Wes Schaeffer (00:42.654)
Nice. So we have a similar background. You were in the Air Force, right? In Israel.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (00:48.662)
Yeah, and they swear in this value in the idea fair

Wes Schaeffer (00:52.246)
So how, how do a couple of air force dudes end up teaching sales training?

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (00:58.884)
I think actually if you are in the Air Force, they teach you lots of discipline, lots of how to have a system in everything, how to manage your time, how to manage your energy. And it's the same thing about sales. People think that you just talk to people. If you lecture, they'll go on stage and start talking, but there lots of preparation, lots of order, lots of discipline, lots of system. So I think this is something that the Army teaches us.

Wes Schaeffer (01:27.246)
Yeah. Were you an officer in the Air Force?

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (01:30.392)
Yeah, I was a Lieutenant in the Israeli Air Force, first the Flight Academy for a year and a half, and then I was an air traffic controller, commandant of the air traffic control. like I told you before the interview, I used to work also with the American Army in lots of collaboration between the Israeli and American Air Forces.

Wes Schaeffer (01:53.42)
Well, look, I just, will apologize on behalf of the army. You know, not everybody can get into the air force. we, we let them serve, you know, cause they had a good heart. They just, you know, weren't quite up to it, but you know, so just take them with a grain of salt. Okay.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (02:10.904)
Yeah, they were great guys from what I recall.

Wes Schaeffer (02:16.59)
Now LA is getting to meet our Marines, so that'll be interesting. But you know, that's a whole other topic. my gosh. So what is your educational background? What's your PhD in?

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (02:23.64)
Yeah.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (02:31.908)
I'm a lawyer and economist and my PhD in law, how to persuade judges in courthouses in the digital era. There was something that's innovative. I wrote it 15 years ago when the digital era started, when just we had Google and Facebook just started. it has a lot of effect on the legal procedures. So I wrote a PhD on it. And till now I do it.

Wes Schaeffer (02:38.168)
Dr. Yaniv Zaid (02:59.394)
I don't do legal, but I teach lawyers, teach judges how to persuade in courthouses. It's also sales, you you also sell yourself each day, you sell your arguments, you you have debate with the other party. So it's like, it's like salesperson in courthouses.

Wes Schaeffer (03:11.598)
Yeah.

Wes Schaeffer (03:19.616)
Yeah. And that's what I try to instill in everyone is that sales, marketing, persuasion, it is everywhere. You know, like the old, the old story, you know, in poker, if you don't know who the chump is at the table, it's you. Right. And so it's, it's everywhere.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (03:40.618)
It's like in Facebook, you if someone doesn't sell you anything, that you are the product, you know?

Wes Schaeffer (03:45.888)
Right. Yeah. I mean, and like in the new Testament, you know, it says like when two or more people gathered in my name, there I am. Right. I tell people when two or more people gather, a sale is made, you know, and, they'll, they'll try to fight me on it. But it's like, if you meet your best friend, you know, say what you want to go to lunch. Yeah. Yeah. What do you want? Yo, I want Indian food. I'd rather have Italian. Okay. Let's go get Italian. That's a sale. it's not really so it is a sale.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (03:57.24)
Yeah.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (04:16.372)
Clients tell me, I can't sell, so I say, are you married? Yes. So you sold yourself at least once. And if you were married for a second time, you sold yourself at least two times.

Wes Schaeffer (04:22.062)
You there?

Yeah. I mean, so, so this is universal then like, you know, you see this in Israel as well. People were like, they shy away from like, I'm not in sales.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (04:36.856)
And there are people like this everywhere, by the way, sales are, you know, it's global, global problems and global solutions. You know, I deliver workshops all over the world and I had the one once in 2017, something like that. In one month, I delivered a sales workshop in Hanoi, Vietnam, in Tel Aviv, Israel, and in New Jersey. And the same, the same content. So you imagine you said to yourself, okay, different mentalities, different people. Maybe there will be different questions. Exact, exact.

the same questions, you know, exactly the exact problems of business persons and entrepreneurs. was, it amazed me, you know, that different mentalities, different people, different, you know, spaces on the planet. And when you talk to entrepreneurs, you talk to managers, you talk to sales persons, they have the same problems. And this is why, this is why my book is global. And I managed to sell it to so many languages because probably the principles are universal.

Wes Schaeffer (05:33.858)
Yeah. And so you say you, you got your PhD, did you say was it 15 years ago or you wrote the first book 15 years ago?

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (05:40.8)
And I wrote my first book 20 years ago when I was 27, now I'm 48. And my PhD I got when I was 31. So it's 17 years ago. When the digital era was just starting to evolve, there was just a beginning of Facebook and YouTube and extra. I've been an entrepreneur and self-employed since 2003. And when I started marketing myself and sell myself, there was no Facebook, no newsletters, no YouTube.

I can't even remember how I brought people to my first workshops, know, because if you talk today, all the things we do, none of them existed in, you know, 20, 25 years ago. It's amazing. When I remember fax machines, for example, you remember we used to send mails to millions of emails. You bought data of millions of emails, you know, for example, stuff like that, doesn't exist. not even legal today, by the way, because of the spam laws, you know, so.

So we did things differently, but we need as salesperson and marketing people, we need to evolve all the time and we need to adjust ourselves all the time because the market is changing and the clients are changing. You know, we are in a new era now, 2025, you know, I always say that clients, have, let's call it a fake radar or bullshit radar. That there are things you could say 10, 15, 20 years ago, you can't say now, or marketing writing you wrote in a different way 20 years from now and today.

So the authenticity is very important that you need to be yourself because if you try to be someone else people will notice the fake in a minute.

Wes Schaeffer (07:17.9)
Yeah, I was going to ask you like what, what has stayed the same. So being authentic, what else, you know, because it is, especially since COVID a lot more working from home, hybrid work, executives are at home versus the office. Direct mail is a little harder, you know, to reach, these executives. you know, people are now calling and texting, you know, as a first time outreach.

which was, I don't think I ever called a cell phone or texted, you know, 10, even 10 years ago, at least as a first step is an outreach, but now it's kind of okay. so what, what has stayed the same?

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (08:03.278)
So first of all, authenticity is very important today more than ever because you know, back then you could say things about yourself that you're great and you just talk about your achievements and success. But today people are looking for your failures as well. They would like to see that you're authentic and you're not perfect. I always tell my clients in workshops, be Batman and not Superman, you know, because what's the difference? know, Batman and Superman, are both superheroes and they both look like human beings, right? But Superman is not a human being, he came from another planet.

So if Superman deliver a workshop how to fly and I buy the VIP ticket and I sit in the first row and he tells me everything, know, exact instructions, you know, go to the highest tower, go to the roof, check the wind, check your first step. I will do exactly what he says. I'm still going to fall because he's a superhuman. I'm not. But Batman will deliver a workshop how to fly. And then he will tell me, you know, Yanniv, I'm just like you. I even had a war slide because you know, the Joker murdered my parents when I was young and I...

fell into a cave and I was afraid of bats and afraid of darkness. But then I taught myself how to fly. Look what I did. So this guy I can relate to because we are the same. So today, you know, you need to be very, very authentic. It always a good tip, but today it's even maybe a necessity. And then, you know, because people can relate to you if you are not perfect. There is a line of lectures in high tech companies these days.

It's called fuck up nights. What is fuck up nights? Entrepreneurs telling other entrepreneurs about their failures. So people come to the pub or to the conference hall to hear about other people's failures. Now there is a little twist because usually the story is in my first company, I lost $120 million of investors. My second company, I got bankrupt and got divorced. And my third company is PayPal, know, something like that. it's a failure, failure, It's usually you don't hear.

I lost $100 million of investors and then I bankrupt and then today I'm homeless, didn't move my parents, something like that. But still people are coming to hear the failures, people are coming to hear the road show, okay, the road, the way you did. So authenticity is very, very important. And you asked me what is the same. So even in the digital era, people still, if you have an interaction face to face, it's very, very important, you know.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (10:28.598)
Many people, salespeople today, hide behind the computer. You know, they always prefer send an email and not a WhatsApp text or messenger text. And send you a messenger text and not call you. Or call you and not have a Zoom meeting. Or have a Zoom meeting and not have a face-to-face meeting. So always say, you still need the interaction with people. People still walk with people. You have, you know, the AI era, you know, and the chat GPT and everything. So people...

even says people, always, you know, they have a comfort zone of asking everything they I and you know, sending emails and not talk to other people. But if you do it, if you do the same principles of interaction with other people, like you did five, 10, 15 years ago, then you're first of all, you're very unique because most people, don't do it and people will appreciate it. And then people can relate to you and people will do business with you because they feel connected to you. So this is something I think it's very, very important to reserve.

and maintain today and years to come.

Wes Schaeffer (11:31.642)
How do they reach someone today though? It seems harder than ever to make these connections.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (11:42.628)
And I will tell you, I don't think it's that hard because people are social human being, know, they would like to be with one another. I can tell you now, I live in a neighborhood in off Tel Aviv and there was a food truck came to our street and all week they published in the WhatsApp group of the neighbors, there will be food trucks selling pizza and beer.

out in a certain space in the neighborhood. And just before this interview, my wife and I and my baby and my dog went to eat to have some pizza. And there were lots of neighbors coming with the kids, everything. And I told her, you know, it's amazing because you can order pizza by phone. You can order pizza by internet. We have a big center, a shopping center next to our house with lots of pizza houses. So I can go to eat pizza, whatever I want.

Why I go to buy food to the next street to eat pizza because people are like the gathering. They like the gathering. They like to be with one another. So most people they hide behind the computer because it's, you know, it's, more comfortable. I don't need to, to read people, to get to know people, to be curious about people, you know, to have an interaction. But if you would like to sell, if you would like to develop a long-term relationship with your clients, they need to get to know you. They would like to hang out with you. You would like to hang out with them. Now.

There are limitations. example, I now in Tel Aviv, you're in California. So we can't meet face to face yet. When I come to you, when you come to Israel, we let each other know. But for now we settle with online recording, but it's still better than if we talk by phone and talking by phone is still better than we've just, you know, exchange emails with one another. So it's not that hard because people like to connect with other people. Usually they don't have chance. So if you are the one as a salesperson who initiated the

and you know the interaction with others the other side most people say yes

Wes Schaeffer (13:43.374)
How do you see AI playing a part in this? Obviously it's here. I've had a lot of guys on recently doing more and more with it. guy just before you just published yesterday, he's doing more, he's leveraging AI for inbound, helping companies handle that. And he's out of the UK. obviously Europe and the EU have pretty strict rules.

And they're doing some outbound with it, but they disclose it right up front. My inbox is full. My LinkedIn messages are full of AI mass messages. Most are not very good, you know, so is it going to get better? Do you recommend using it? Do you recommend using it sparingly? Like what's your take on that?

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (14:34.88)
Great question. So first of all, this is a real revolution we're now facing and nobody knows what the future holds. know, if they control us, if you control them, you know, if Skynet rule the world or something like that. it's a tool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I tell everyone every day that Skynet doesn't rule us. It's a blessing, know, it's a gift. you know...

Wes Schaeffer (14:47.032)
Sarah Connor is not happy.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (14:59.032)
People are getting addicted to AI and ask questions. know, I had clients, you know, doing conferences. They asked the ChetGPT when to do a conference, which is the best date in your opinion. I go to book fairs, international book fairs. I help also authors sell the rights of the books. So I had delegation of authors each day. So I sold the ticket to one of our authors and she told me today, texted me.

I asked the chat GPT whether I should go to Frankfurt, the biggest one in the world or not with you. This was the answer. What do we have to say about it? Something like that. So people consult with the AI in everything, but yet as salesperson, my, my belief is that AI for now is just a tool. It's just a tool. It is a partner. It's not the enemy and we can't ignore him. Okay. But it's a tool. If you just use AI, that's it. Then you're in a problem. First of all, you sound like everyone else.

Second of all, AI still doesn't, can be human. It develops itself all the time to become more more human, but still they are not like human beings. We have the, let's say the secret ingredient of humanity, of emotions that AI can replace. In every department when people are having lots of experience, they identify immediately what is AI, what is human. You know, my wife,

She in a recruitment, managing recruitment of teams all over the world. And she said, if someone sends me a CV that AI wrote in a second, I know it. And immediately, obviously I won't take this guy for an interview or something like that. So AI is a tool. We can use AI, especially if we're stuck, if you don't know how to handle an objection or we have something we would like to ask, but still we need to take the answers and add another, let's say human aspect in it.

and be ourselves. because let's say combined to the previous question, because most people they just relying on AI and seeing all the AI text, then if you write actual text without AI, you will be different. They will notice you. So you can use it, but not become addicted to it. You can't ignore it, but don't let it control you. And this is for now, we recorded in the middle of 2025, maybe in

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (17:22.116)
2026 kind to rule the world. There are many videos about it that they actually, they already took over and just let us know, let us think that he's stupid. They're still taking pictures of six fingers in one hand or something like that or three hands that we can say, they're not that smart, but actually they're taking over. for now, sales is an art that you need to preserve. And I will say one more thing about it. If as salesperson marketing,

we need to develop ourselves all the time and become the best version of ourselves. Because if we will become experts and professional authority, AI can't really replace us. If we are mediocre, then AI can replace us. If, for example, we take lawyers. So if you come to a lawyer and you would like a simple agreement and the lawyer checks on the internet, know, a lease agreement and they just give you the agreement or they just take a file of something they did five years ago and just change the name.

They are mediocre lawyers and AI can replace them today. But if they have a secret ingredient of creativity and knowing what to say in courthouse, as they're knowing right to exact writing the legal document to the specific judge, then AI still today can replace them. So be professional at what you do and be the best expert you can in sales and marketing and AI will become your friend and not replace you.

Wes Schaeffer (18:47.808)
Yep. Amen. So why is your URL Dr. Persuasion and not Dr. Sales Guru?

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (18:57.348)
Ah, yeah. So first of all, I started in a debate society when I was 10 to 13 years old. I finished my army. I was a four years in the army, a lieutenant, as we said, and I started learning law and economy in Haifa University, it's the north of Israel. And I joined the debate society and I participated in many debate competitions worldwide. And I was number three in the world ranking public speakers in 2003 and I reached semi-finals in 2002.

And then, and I love the debate very much. And then I decided I would like to teach people how to speak in front of other people, because I realized that the debate is just maybe hundreds or maybe thousands of people know about it. But the tools are relevant for everyone, for lawyers, for business owners, for entrepreneurs, for everyone. So, so I started writing, writing lectures and they became my first book. It's called public speaking. Till today, you can find it on Amazon. And then.

I wrote my PhD, my PhD in law. It was about how to persuade judges, as I mentioned. And one day I love Marvel videos, Marvel movies. There was a movie before the, there was the Guardians, the Guardians that there was Dr. Manhattan. Dr. Manhattan is a superhero. He was a real doctor, chemist, and they had a misfunction in his lab and he became a superhero. So I saw it one night and then I say, hey,

he's Dr. Manhattan, I will be Dr. Persuasion. And immediately I bought the domain, drpersuasion.com. This is my domain of my English website till today. And I waited two more years till I finished my PhD. And then I officially called myself Dr. Persuasion, including website and Facebook page and LinkedIn page and everything. this was my way to show that I'm an expert because Dr. Persuasion is, you see that I already have a PhD and I'm an expert in what I do.

And persuasion is actually communication. can, from persuasion, you can take sales and marketing and public speaking and presentation and, you know, marketing writing. It's the same family. So this was my, my way to differentiate myself from my competitors or my colleagues.

Wes Schaeffer (21:12.494)
Yeah, that's good. Yeah. I love it. That's what I tell people. mean, it's all, it's all two sides of the same coin, right? Sales and marketing persuasion and marketing persuasion and sales. It's just, it's communication, right? It's connecting with people.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (21:26.206)
By the way, when I called myself Dr. Persuasion, nobody liked it. My family, my friends, my colleagues, they laughed about me. They say, you know, I came with my kids to meet friends at the beach and from far they cry, it's a plane, it's a bird. No, it's Dr. Persuasion, know, something like that. And my colleagues from the academy...

I thought in the academy fairs, they say, wow, it's a disgrace of academy that you call it a doctor persuasion. It's like a disrespect for the academy or something like that. But when you succeed, everyone would like to be part of the success. And suddenly everyone says, oh, of course, I love the name for the first minute I heard it or something like that. So if you have an idea, stick with it and hold on to your idea and preserve it to yourself.

Wes Schaeffer (22:19.352)
Well, that's the old, what? No man's a prophet in his homeland. Right. mean, you get picked on, right? And like my, I have the sales whisper. bought that in 2006 and, nobody really poo pooed on it. Right. But like still to this day, my buddies will pick on me. Mr. Whisperer, the whisperers here. I'm like, come here.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (22:23.671)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, because the people, yeah.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (22:40.259)
Yeah.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (22:44.322)
Yeah, yeah. Probably your friends from the army, you they laughed about you about this.

Wes Schaeffer (22:47.822)
yeah. but yeah, I think it's a great name. So that's cool. It's cool that you got it. so I'm looking at your commandments here, huh? Did you get any grief for having like a religious overtone or undertone with this?

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (23:04.516)
Yeah, because I call it, yeah, I call it the sales Bible because 10 commandments, 10 chapters, each chapter includes the chapter chapters about many, many situations, simulations, case studies about the principle. For example, if a chapter is one commandment is ask and get high prices, then you have 15 stories of principles inside this chapter on how to do how to do it. So my basic assumption was that everyone needs all 10 commandments, but you can start with

Let's say if you see commitment number five and all build a community and this is what the most common problem you have, then you start with these chapters. So you don't need to read the book from A to Z, but you can pick the relevant chapters or sub chapters and start from there. This is why it's best seller. This is why people connect to it. And the religious part, it's like I'm not religious, but most population is. I said to myself, the sales is a religion. Sales is a...

You know, a system of beliefs, it's an ecosystem. You need to know the ecosystem. So I say, if I analyze this ecosystem, how I can call it, so I call it the Bible with the commandments, you know, it's something that's thick.

Wes Schaeffer (24:19.744)
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, in the Jewish faith, I mean, you have a Bible, right? I mean, you've got like the Torah, but that's just the first five writings, first five books, right? And then the prophets, yeah, the prophets and then...

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (24:27.684)
Yeah, it's all right.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (24:34.148)
Yeah, the first five books, but then we have many more, many more. Yeah.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (24:42.21)
By the way, I work with lots of religious people and they know the joke or the metaphor. They don't think that I disrespect the religion or something like that. So they also say, I wrote your Bible or something like that. They don't say it's a disgrace that you call it, say the Bible or something like that. So it's okay. understand it.

Wes Schaeffer (25:01.966)
Yeah, a lot. I'm the first product I made was the seven deadly sins of selling and, um, and I think I let it go, but for years I had the sales reverend.com because an early sales manager, a district manager of mine, actually back in like 1998, cause I, I get fired up, right. And he's like, preach reverend. uh, so I had that, uh, and I actually bought, I bought a Christian, like a priest.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (25:12.921)
Mmm.

Wes Schaeffer (25:31.436)
black shirt and white collar. And I did these pictures. You ever see the blues brothers? You know, like the eighties. So I was going to kind of go in that style, right? And I sunglasses on like I'm pointing. Yeah. All black and and I did it just as a spoof, but then I, so I, I blotted out the collar and just use that picture and people were like, that's the

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (25:36.846)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (25:47.042)
Heck yeah.

Wes Schaeffer (26:00.962)
Greatest picture and so it's from like 2010, I think. But on my coin, that's my sales reverend. But you can't tell on that.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (26:13.156)
By the way, Reven's and Preacher's, they are great sales persons. They need to sell themselves. Yeah.

Wes Schaeffer (26:18.488)
Well, they're good. Yeah, I think, I think it was David, David Ogilvy, you know, said, you can't save souls in an empty church.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (26:25.796)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You market yourself and sell yourself each day of the week. You need to grow community, to build a community and grow it. You need to have viral marketing, the people who talk about you and bring their friends. It's all the principles of marketing. says, I will mature from Sunday or a synagogue on Saturday.

Wes Schaeffer (26:47.532)
Yeah, you've got to be able to communicate. And unfortunately, I mean, a lot of religious leaders are terrible at that, but, well, what are you going to do?

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (26:58.628)
It's like every department. Most people are mediocre, but if you're good at what you do, you shine above all the noise.

Wes Schaeffer (27:07.67)
Yep, so let me see here. So you'd mentioned number one, right? Ask and get high prices.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (27:13.24)
Yeah.

Wes Schaeffer (27:15.032)
Let me see here.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (27:16.64)
Because most people, the basic assumption, if you'd to sell, then give discount, know, and lower your price. And if you're in a competitive market, then it's a price market. And I say, no, it's a value market. So instead of decreasing prices, just increase your offer, increase your explanation, sell better, sell the problem before the solution. Because for example, if you take a regular bouquet of flowers and you call it a bouquet of flowers, then you can charge, let's say, $100. But if you call it a bridal bouquet,

Okay, for wedding for the wedding, you flowers for the wedding, then you can charge 300 to $500 each each product or service for the wedding costs three to five times more. Now the flowers are the same flowers, but what, what do I buy when I buy flowers for the wedding? I'm not buying flowers. I'm buying the image of a queen for a day, you know, and the million dollar filling and the, buy the photo album that there will be pictures of the wedding and I will see 10 years from now, the bride and groom will sit with the kids and they will say,

look at the photo album and you say, Oh, look at beautiful. And 30 years from now they will see that they will sit with the grandkids and they'll say, Oh, look at beautiful grandmother was this is what I buy today on the day of the wedding when I buy flowers. So if you, if you sell the problem before the solution, for example, then you can charge more and people will pay you more happily pay you more. And if you are brand people will pay you more because I always pay more for let's say for me for makes Mercedes than a Subaru in both cases, have four wheels and a no.

and an engine that will take you from place A to place B. But I'm willing to pay more. So my book is about how to become a brand and how to increase sales even in a saturated market, in a competitive market. And this is maybe against the instinct of most people, but if you're good in sales, then you understand the principle.

Wes Schaeffer (29:06.026)
I saw a video today actually and I've seen it a couple of times but I paid attention to it this time on Instagram with Patek watches. You know they have they did a joint venture with Tiffany's and the guys were looking at it and if if the Tiffany logo is on the watch it's an extra quarter of a million dollars.

but you can only buy it at the Tiffany's headquarters in New York. And you're only allowed to buy it if you've already spent a hundred thousand or more on other stuff. I guess even men are wearing like these brooches now, know, diamond and jewels, you know, and there's whatever little decorations for your desk.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (29:59.204)
So it's not about the watch. You don't buy the watch to know what's the time because you have cheaper watches. You buy the status as you start to say networking with, you know, people, rich people. And what the company does is something very smart. It's called creating a shortage, you know, it's not for everyone. You need to prove yourself. You need to become in a special club. need to show us, know, to beg us to sell you a watch, you know, to show us that you spend much money.

And then you need to come to New York and maybe make an appointment and then you need to spend lots of money. And only then will you will get inside our club of clients, our, you know, raving fans. So this is something amazing. So basically most people that know about these watches, they can't afford to buy them or they won't buy them, but they don't approach everyone because they are a boutique company. They say, I would like everyone to talk about us.

And there will be few people, maybe not the richest one, but few people that it will be important for them enough to buy a watch for quarter of a million dollars.

Wes Schaeffer (31:05.335)
Yeah. Well, quarter million dollars extra. think the watch is already, I think it's already one or $200,000 for the watch. And so that emblem is another quarter million. And I always.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (31:08.9)
I already

Yeah.

It was also the Coca-Cola test, know, they put free glasses, know, without symbols, they told people what is more tasty, then they picked another thing, not Coca-Cola, where they put free bottles with the titles, everyone picked Coca-Cola. So the brand, and then probably say, is more tasty than the others. Okay, but yeah, there is a brand, our mind works this way.

Wes Schaeffer (31:43.278)
Yeah, I heard they did a study years ago and put two glasses of wine and they said, you know, and they hooked up their brains, right? So they could see the activity and they said, okay, well try this one. You know, this is a $10 bottle of wine, whatever. they go, okay. And they said, okay, now try this one. You know, this is a $400 bottle or, know, some extremely rare and the brain lit up.

And then they come back and they go, it was the same bottle of wine. And both of them were just a cheap wine, but the perception they got more joy and pleasure out of the perception that it was more expensive.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (32:24.484)
So first of all, today in 2025, 2026, we talked about authenticity. So you also need to tell the truth and to be honest about everything and to be transparent in front of your clients that we appreciate it more. But if...

Wes Schaeffer (32:37.152)
No way. No, stop. got to delete this. can honest. on. We're sick. Come on. We're both salesmen, man. We don't come on.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (32:43.524)
I say, okay, you know, for long term relationship with people, just tell them the truth. But no, no, you can, you can, you can, you can say, okay, you can use principles from the subconscious. Okay. I will give an example in a minute. You can say something in a more marketing way, a more persuasive way, but tell the truth. Don't tell lies. Don't tell, don't, don't tell numbers that are not correct, but

Wes Schaeffer (32:51.495)
A little lie? Not even a little one?

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (33:12.164)
What we talked about in the wine, it's called social proof. What is social proof that if many people believe it, that I also believe it. So if you take, for example, two restaurants, I'm very hungry and starving and I come to a place I don't know, I see two restaurants, one next to another, and one is empty, one is full. And the full one is they have also a line of people till the end of the block. And I am starving. So where do I go to eat?

A logically I need to go to the empty one because they are both open. The owner stands in front of the restaurant that tells you, in. So I can come in and eat in five minutes, but no, will stand in line for an hour and then I will come to a selector and I will beg him. You know, it's always makes me laugh because I'm a paying customer. need to beg someone to let me in. I will beg some selector to let me in and then I go inside and then I also wait inside because it's full. Why do I do it?

Here enters the social proof because our mind works that way that I said to myself in matter of seconds. In matter of seconds. Here, many people are here, so probably the food is good. Here, nobody's here, probably the food is not good. I have no clue. I don't know the restaurants. And when I stand in line, I start telling stories to myself, my subconscious level. I'm now taking it to the conscious level, but it's subconscious level. Telling myself, for example, maybe here it's more fresh. The food is more fresh. Maybe here it's more tasty. I don't know it.

But they need to justify to myself why I stand in line like an asshole. Sorry for saying that for an hour when I could have eaten already 20 years ago, 20 minutes ago, something like that. So you need to, this is how our mind works. So you can use a social proof, for example, as a tool, not like, but not a cheat. For example, I can show you evidence why many people like me.

You know, like I mentioned before, numbers of copies I've sold, numbers of languages people translated to me, translated my books, know, stuff like that. But if I tell you the wrong numbers, or if you're just made up, a book is a best seller when it's not, or I finished my degree in excellent, when I didn't finish the degree, something like that, you can find out. Today, all the information is available. You can find out. if you find out one thing I said is not true, you won't believe.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (35:29.314)
You won't believe me ever. we just finished our relationship.

Wes Schaeffer (35:31.908)
Okay, but let me ask you something about that because there are popular trainers right now.

with literal fraud cases, public record, right? In America, you, if you've got a criminal charge against you, it's public record. these guys have been in shady deals. They have ripped off mentors, copied content, claimed it as their own. just like early this week, today's what Thursday, I think Tuesday, I saw this guy, one of his ads, cause he got kind of read these guys stuff. Like what's going, what are they doing? Right? And he's like,

You know, we've already trained 509,000 people in your niche. And I'm like, or, or, or your industry, right? I'm like, okay, let's say there's just 10 industries. They've trained 5 million people. Like, come on, man. But people, they still people buy their stuff. Who's, who's fallen for this stuff?

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (36:17.476)
Ha

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (36:34.696)
So, yeah, so first of all, karma is a bitch, you know, because if again, if you lie to people, if you all business model is based online and showing fraud, you know, that or something like that, then eventually people will notice the media will notice some people will publish in social media, by the way, today, you're not doing a research of New York Times, you know, just need a few people on Facebook showing that you're a fraud and many people will notice it.

So eventually you can't lie to everyone all the time. I, my accommodation again in 2025, don't lie at all and just saying a good things that everyone can create, have, have an achievement that they can be proud of. Okay. So, and basically, for example, let's say someone was in jail. Okay. And there is a public record. So you don't need to hide it. You can talk about it and use it as as a leverage. For example, the wolf, the wolf of Wall Street. Okay. Jordan Belfort. I.

I was, came to Israel in 2014. It was the biggest lecture presentation in Israel so far, 3000 people in the big conference on the Tel Aviv. And I was the lecture before him. was me and then him. I was the opening show, let's say. And he was the keynote speaker. So I talked to him and he talked to the audience. He's very authentic. He admits he was wrong. know, he's not, some of the things he's proud of, some he's not proud of, but.

You can relate to him because he's not trying to hide his past. Okay. So even if you did mistakes in the past, and even if the media covered it or, know, or there's public record or something, I talk about it because people can know it. Everything is on record. Everything, you know, today there is, there's information everywhere. You know, you have LinkedIn, you have Facebook, your Instagram. I can, I can Google you. I can ask the church GPT about you. And they will tell me all your track record from 50 years ago. It things that.

even you don't remember so so why lie to people why tell the fraud okay why you think something is not by the way

Wes Schaeffer (38:39.308)
Yeah, but these guys do, mean, cause I'm all, I'm all for that. I've had at least four guys that have been to prison on my podcast, know, some of them multiple times, but you know, they they've come clean with it. So that's fine. But these guys, like they bury it or, you know.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (38:50.734)
Yeah.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (38:54.392)
So bless them and you don't want to be like them and I don't want to be like them and eventually they attract the wrong people. They attract the people that are maybe not smart enough or they don't check enough or they're just wannabes and they are blind from their success. I've talked about the authenticity and things are changing. For example, five, 10, 15 years ago, it was very popular to say before you start pitching to something or lecture,

This is my beautiful wife, my model wife, and this is my condo, my penthouse. Look at it. yeah, this is my car, my Porsche or something like that. And look how rich I am and look how successful I am. And I was broke and then in one minute I made $2 million in one minute once I realized the system in one day. But those stories today, first of all, again, it's a cliche.

Wes Schaeffer (39:25.038)
This is my reason why.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (39:48.004)
and people don't buy it and even if you tell it, then people can check in a minute if it's legit or not. So if you still want to do it, to shorten your learning curve or something like that and just tell a fake story, then people will notice it's fake. And the ones that don't know it's fake, I don't want to work with them. I would like to work with smart clients, with educated clients, with people that will look into my what I say.

that want to treat me like I'm the rabbi or priest or guru or something like that. I'm their consultant and they consult with me, but at the end they need to take responsibility for the actions. this is my belief and this is my business model.

Wes Schaeffer (40:34.954)
I was really hoping, you know, Dr. Persuasion, you'd show me how like, look into my eye, you were gonna scare me off.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (40:42.436)
Well, I'm very persuasive. Yeah. But, but, uh, and I use, use it in court houses. use it in armies. Uh, I use it, uh, you know, in many, many occasions I worked with the, the Israeli army, with other armies about how to, you know, persuade the other side, how to, uh, uh, not to have agents from the other side or stuff like that. But I'm very persuasive, but at the end of the day, I would like to sleep well at night. And I would like to tell my clients only things that I know for a fact that works.

And all the things I on myself or my business and I used on other clients. And this is why people come to me. This is why they buy my books and order my workshops because they know they get the truth, the authenticity, and they get case studies that actually happen.

Wes Schaeffer (41:26.648)
Do you have a Tom Cruise, few good men moment? Do ever get somebody to break down in court?

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (41:34.244)
So this is a cliche, this is actually a cliche. can tell you as a, because I have PhD in law and I am a lawyer and also I helped many lawyers there to do a cross-examination. It doesn't happen in real life, you know, you don't have serial killers say, I didn't do anything. And then you say something, say, you know what, I killed all those 20 bodies. And also I have 10 more bodies that you don't even know about it, but I will tell you where they are buried. So it doesn't happen, it's only in movies, but what you can do.

is not crack someone in order to admit the crime, undermine their confidence, for example. Let me give you a little trick, for example. A lawyer can prepare the witness what to say. You can prepare the witness and you will say to what to say, if they ask for this, you will say this, if they ask for this, you will say this, it's legit, okay?

But most lawyers, don't tell the witness if someone will ask you, did I prepare you? You can say yes, it's okay. They don't say it. So the first question, if you'd like to undermine someone, they go to the bench. They are very confident. And then you ask, tell me, did you have that preparation with your lawyer? What to say today? Now they don't know what to say because if they will say yes, maybe I say, well, you can't prepare. They can't tell you what to say. Okay, so you're dismissed, right?

But if you say no, they lied in the first question, they lied in the first answer. So what they do is they look at the lawyer. Okay, because they're looking for the answer. So I said, no, no, don't look at him. Look at me. I asked you, did they prepare you or not? And again, they look and say, no, no, what's your problem? What's your problem? Look at me. Did they prepare you or not? And this minute, you know, they feel, okay, we are not in Kansas anymore, Toto, you know, we are in a different background. So the first question you already,

and she's something you know it's not that good and saying that they did the crime but they're they feel less confident.

Wes Schaeffer (43:34.701)
Yeah.

Yeah, that's good. You know, it's, I find that I do things similarly. I get on a sales call, like when, when they're trying to sell me and they're trying to get information and, know, I let them do the opening and they're, they'll, okay, well tell me about your situation, whatever. And then I'll just, I'll ask something that seems like innocuous, you know, minor about what they had just said.

and they go off on a tangent, they'll talk for 10 minutes. And it's helping me get info from them. Because I know, and I've always taught this, whoever's asking the questions is in control of the conversation.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (44:26.276)
By the way, you told me, you asked me before what is not different today than 10, 15, 20 years ago, the listening part, because this is something that every salesperson, good salesperson need to know is how to listen. Now it's not obvious to us, because if you're obvious listener, if you're natural listener, you don't go to be a salesperson or manager or entrepreneur. Usually you go to be a shrink or psychiatrist or mediator.

or something like that, all the time your job is to listen to people. But salesperson or marketing persons or managers, entrepreneurs, we would like to talk all day. I'll have to talk, you'll have to talk. So against our instinct, we need to teach ourselves to listen to the other side and to ask the right question and to gather the information and then use the information when we feel fit. And all this in an authentic way and not like a robot, you something like that. So this is something that is very important to learn, especially in the AI area.

Wes Schaeffer (45:22.978)
Yeah. So, you know, I've worked from home since 2000 and, even then I had three kids, then I had seven, then a dog. And, so I'm always going on mute, right? I, earlier, I hear my daughter downstairs running the blender, right? Making her smoothie. I hit mute and over the years. And, and I would also like, now AI is so good. I let it transcribe for me. Then I, and I.

take the notes in the summaries and put it into the blog post. But I would type notes during the interview, you know, I would just, and I would just hit mute and I would just take typing out notes. And, but I do this as well on a sales call, right? Because usually you can tell somebody kind of the cadence, like, okay, they're, they're still going. I've got a second. And you can tell as they're wrapping up that come back and unmute. But many times like this would happen.

And they would like, they would stop talking abruptly. I'm like, Oh, and maybe I got a screen like, you know, I got your PDF of your book and it may be it's over. Oh, I got to move it. And it takes too long to unmute, but just that three quarters of a second, person on the other end, they, they hear the silence. They don't like the silence. So they keep going again. And, uh, and so it's fine on an interview, but it's really good talking to a prospect. Cause they just.

keep going and keep going. just like, please continue. And it just gives you the information.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (46:57.252)
And actually the clients said to themselves because they already share all the problems and all the needs and all the you know, and then when you when you introduce a solution that they can tell you well I don't need it but you just said you had the problem one two or three so this is a solution one two or three actually so to yourself

Wes Schaeffer (47:11.309)
Right.

Wes Schaeffer (47:14.915)
Yeah.

That's what I'm always teaching people is that we have to get the prospect to admit their pain and to quantify their pain. And this may be the first time they've ever done it. I've always said, if they truly understood their issue, they would have already solved it. Right? So the fact that we're talking, means they haven't come to the realization that they have a pain.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (47:37.752)
Yeah.

Wes Schaeffer (47:46.816)
And how much it's costing them. Cause as soon as they do, they're going to, if the pain is big enough and it's affecting them, you know, physically, emotionally, financially, whatever, they're going to invest the money to take away that pain.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (48:00.092)
So yeah, we talked about asking get high prices. So the bigger the problem is, the more I'm willing to pay for it. And I'm willing to pay more money and to go to experts because I'm hurt, you know? So sometimes you need to make the client realize during the sales call how bad the situation is. And it's not like you say, okay, you are married for 20 years, you have seven kids. Okay, let me tell you what your problem is. You don't have time, you're exhausted, you and your wife, you don't have privacy.

If I say as an expert, even if I'm right, and if I dealt with 20,000 people like you, they will say, no, it's okay. We like every other couple. It's okay. Maybe I have a mediocre life, but it's like, this is like this. don't say I can't afford more time. But if I asked you, what is the problem? What, what do you feel? How much time do you spend with your wife? How much time? And then you will start sharing stories. Then you actually realize during the conversation that that you're in a mess. then, and then, and then, and then it's easier to sell to you the.

Wes Schaeffer (48:53.602)
Right. Right.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (48:59.202)
Let's the marriage you consulted or something like that.

Wes Schaeffer (49:03.15)
Right, Amen. Well, it's evening time for you, huh? It's time to, you're on daddy duty.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (49:07.192)
Amen.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (49:12.164)
Yeah, yeah, and that I do do my I have a three weeks old son for my second wife my first one from the second wife my third in general You know the the fact that you mentioned you have seven kids and you write it everywhere you talk about it every it's also social proof right because What I know about you is that you are reliable I lots again I and I'm now taking the subconscious level and taking them to the conscious level But when you say I'm married for that with my first wife and I have seven kids

from the same wife and you keep mentioning it, it's great that it's authentic and people say, okay, he's a reliable guy. He is responsible. He knows how to manage because he manages all those kids. You know, I can, he takes care of people. They will take care of me. You know, he's not going everywhere. It's not like tomorrow getting a, you know, like job in Hong Kong and they will split and I will call him tomorrow and won't be here. So I'm relying on him as my business consultant or something like that. So it says a lot about you.

a lot of good things. This is why you mentioned it probably. And also the fact that you were in the Air Force and you have all those pictures behind you if people see us on video and also I have my books behind me. So all of these are social proof. So this is a great way to talk about yourself in an authentic way and people can relate. By the way, there are people that will say, seven kids, then he won't have time for me. He probably prioritizes family over the clients. Okay, so no, I prefer.

a single person with no kids that all his time is dedicated for sales and marketing and develop my business. Okay. But you don't need those people. need the people that can relate to you or react to you through the fact that you have seven kids and you won't hide it, right? It's like we talked about being in jail. You won't hide the fact that you have seven kids because maybe someone won't like it. You will be authentic. You will be the version of yourself and it will attract you.

the relevant clients and the most relevant clients for you.

Wes Schaeffer (51:11.64)
Yeah. Well, my wife did all this. If I was decorating, I would just have a blank wall, maybe with some empty beer bottles back there.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (51:19.127)
Yeah, I think even with the sports channels, you know, behind you or something.

Wes Schaeffer (51:23.966)
no, sports would be in front so I could see it, but you might see the reflection of the TV and I don't know. So McDonald's rappers. All right. So where do want people to go? Drpersuasion.com? Is that the best place?

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (51:38.446)
Dr.Zaid.com, have my email yaniv at yanivzaid.com. It's Y-A-N-I-V at Y-A-N-I-V-Z-A-I-D.com. My mobile 972-54-800-1200. I provide my personal mobile. You can contact me, but for email of my mobile and I am in all the social media, Yaniv Zaid, like it's written here, Y-A-N-I-V-Z-A-I-D.

TikTok, WhatsApp, YouTube, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, whatever. Telegram, you can find me everywhere through Anif Zaid. So if you have any questions, then you can ask me through my email, yaniv.anifzaid.com. promise to answer any question you may have. And let's begin a beautiful relationship.

Wes Schaeffer (52:26.188)
Nice. So I'm not the only crazy one. I give my cell phone people like, this really your cell phone? And I replied back.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (52:31.876)
I give it to everyone. Most people, don't call. You know, I said that today we have a bookstore book fairs all over the world. I sell my books and in my book, there is my mobile. when I, when I in contact with people, I tell them, this is my book here. I write every accommodation or something like that. Give me a call. Tell me how the book is or something like that. Most people, don't do it. Even though the phone is out there. I told them to call me.

and I still don't do it.

Wes Schaeffer (53:02.656)
I know asking you shall receive. Alright, well Dr. Persuasion go enjoy your night. Go enjoy that baby. Thanks for coming on the show. Hey great catch up with you. Have a good night.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (53:06.699)
Yeah.

Dr. Yaniv Zaid (53:11.46)
It was a pleasure. Thank you very much.